Mi perdoni, mio amore.

Sentence Discussions Italian
#1
English Translation

Forgive me, my love.

Disclosure: the battle of scordatelo accent is still fresh in my memory (terrified viso here). But here we go again. Perdoni is perdòni in reverso, in forvo, in whatever other googled site , but not here! Giorgio says “mi pèrdoni”. Now I say: Mi perdòni, Giorgio! Non è così! As a side note, when I put this sentence in my collection, some other voice, not Giorgio, said perdòni. CM 's clumsy attempt to correct it? What if I learned it wrong? As , always, correct me if I am wrong. I will gladly chiederò il perdòno.

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#2

If you copy a sentence to one of your own collections (using the “+” button while playing), then you no longer have access to the Clozemaster voices, and you will only get whatever system voices are on by default.

I now consider this to be a bug, and so I submitted a bug report a couple of weeks ago -

Incidentally, I find “Microsoft Elsa Online (Natural)” to be every bit as good as the default Giorgio and Carla from Clozemaster (but don’t let @Floria7 hear me saying that :shushing_face: ).

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#3

I am ok with the voices. In forvo they are deliciously grumpy. My question is about the accent. Mi perdòni, or mi pèrdoni? When you put perdoni in the text search you will get Carla’s “Io non mi aspetto che mi pèrdoni” and Giorgio’s “Non mi aspetto che tu mi perdòni”. If it does not matter it should be stated as such. What bothers me is that perdoni changes the accent when you save it to collection. Again, it does not matter where the accent is or one of them is wrong?

#4

@zzcguns Ha, I heard you lol;-) Happy to lend an ear to Elsa. It’s just that I became used to the nuances of Giorgio e Carla with Duo da 2016, losing them to fresh young voices, and then finding them again here when I moved to Cloze. I would so miss Giorgio graciously commenting on various parts of il mio corpo, and gentle Carla telling me we are f…! They’re the Italian voices I hear every day, so I kinda care about them:-)

(For accent queries, I stay with Reverso or our Piero to avoid confusion, and tend not worry too much. If I’m wrong, I usually find out why later down the line and quickly readjust).

Have a good Cloze day…

Edit: Incidentally there are dozens of “How to say…” YouTube videos available, very helpful indeed.

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#5

Sorry, I was mentioning that you no longer have access to the Clozemaster voices in reference to your comment -

Once you’ve lost Giorgio and Carla, the voices are nothing to do with Clozemaster anymore, so there’s no CM clumsily correcting anything. Actually, to be honest, I think I read somewhere that Giorgia and Carla are the voices from Amazon’s text to speech service (I could be wrong there), in which case Giorgio and Carla aren’t really Clozemaster’s voices anyway.

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#6

In terms of the correct pronunciation for perdoni, I would say that the stress should definitely be on the second syllable (perdòni).

As you suggested (well, I interpreted it as a suggestion :grin: ), I’ve listened to the voices for the multitude of sentences containing perdoni. Some of them are Giorgio, and some are Carla, some are stressing on the first syllable, some are stressing on the second syllable.

However, for those that are stressing on the first syllable (irrespective of whether it is Giorgio of Carla), I don’t hear perdoni, but rather perdone. Could you try listening again and see what you think?

– Warning!! - What follows is “intelligent” speculation … –

Moreover, I’m going to suggest that in the case of perdoni there may be a good reason why this causes the algorithms some problems in knowing how to put the correct stress on the word, and that is because there is a similar problem with perdono.

So in the case of perdono, there are in fact two perfectly good pronunciations with different stresses, one on the first syllable, and one on the second syllable -

  • perdòno - verb: first person singular present indicative of perdonare - or alternatively - noun: the translation of “forgiveness”
  • pèrdono - verb: third person plural present indicative of perdere

However, if you search for sentences that contain perdono in Clozemaster, the stress seems almost random across the sentences, with some getting the correct pronunciation, but many sentences being in error. This isn’t restricted to Clozemaster either. Google translate won’t put the stress on the first syllable if I type in “loro perdono la partita” and hit the Text to Speech button, instead it puts the stress on the second syllable . If I ask Reverso to conjugate perdere and then press the “speak” button (the megaphone) next to the third person plural present indicative from, again it puts the stress on the second syllable.

Therefore, since the Text to Speech algorithms are matching patterns of related written words and associated sounds, and have no concept of the meaning of the sentences, I can see how they would have trouble getting the correct version of perdono in these cases. It then isn’t a great leap to suggest that this might spill over for our Clozemaster voice algorithms into difficulty with perdoni in these sentences.

– Speculation over !! –

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#7

Briefly. Mi perdòni/pèrdono - sono d’accordo (anche Reverso). Must away, off to do “Listening” and a few Reviews.

Ciao… :wink:

#8

Things were easier when you had only a good book with the mandatory stress in each word you were learning. This computer algorithm thingy can mess it up profondamente. For me, personally, the stress is as important as la nota nella musica. In certain languages the same word with the different stress will put you in a very uncomfortable situation because they could mean different things. I guess at this stage the computerized language learning comes with the computer checking. Thank you for your speculation , I guess all of it is the battle with the machine che è una perdita di tempo. Nice talking …