Russian / ё and e / request for a fixing

Since Clozemaster derives its sentences from Tatoeba there are inconsistencies and there is one particular inconsistency that really annoys.
In Russian, there is the Е and the Ё. There is a strong difference in pronunciation (jo and je), however, it has become uncommon and considered unnecessary to write ё in written language, apart from proper nouns and a few exceptions. Russian natives usually know how to pronounce a word - and Russian learners are screwed anyways.
For Tatoeba, apparently, there were no guidelines in place (or if there were, they were ignored) so some words that should have an ё have an e instead, others have one were it shouldn’t be if one follows the more recent orthography. For learners, there is no way of telling which words would contain a ё and which don’t.
Thus, in order to prevent an annoying guessing every time when there is an e in a word, I’d like to see the ё being completely removed from al words as it is an outdated way of writing anyways. It will make learners pronounce words the wrong way, from time to time, but it makes the learning experience more consistent. There are only very few words where it makes a difference like for example все (“everybody”) and всё (“everything”) and those, I am sure, can be learned outside of Clozemaster.
Now, I don’t know how Clozemaster manages its databases, so I don’t know how much trouble it will cause but if it not much harder than replacing a character in an Excel chart I’d really appreciate if it were changed :slight_smile:.
@mike

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Thanks for letting us know! From a native Russian speaker working with us:


It isn’t exactly outdated. Personally I use ё almost all the time. It is considered to be optional and people have different opinions about it. Here is one, from a philology PhD:

Alphabet Truth No. 7. The use of the letter “ё” is mandatory in texts with consistently placed stress marks, in books for young children (including textbooks for primary school students), in textbooks for foreigners. In ordinary printed texts it is recommended to write “ё” in cases where a wrong reading of a word is possible, when it is necessary to indicate the correct pronunciation of a rare word or to prevent a speech error. The letter “ё” should also be written in proper names. In other cases, the use of “ё” is optional, that is, optional.

http://gramota.ru/class/istiny/istiny_7_jo/

For the purposes of getting an input from user, “ё” and “е” should be treated equally, but I don’t know if just replacing all the letters would make sense.
No big deal either way though.


We’ll work on getting a fix in place so ë/e are treated the same when playing text input for Russian. Thanks again!

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For the purposes of getting an input from user, “ё” and “е” should be treated equally,

As a Russian learner, I would love to see that happen. However, I’m not enthusiastic about the idea of replacing every “ё” by “е” in the text. That would bring negative consequences that I would rather not see. dlobok mentioned some of them:

It will make learners pronounce words the wrong way, from time to time, but it makes the learning experience more consistent. There are only very few words where it makes a difference like for example все (“everybody”) and всё (“everything”) and those, I am sure, can be learned outside of Clozemaster.

However, whereas dlobok talks about prioritizing consistency over teaching the correct pronunciation of the words, I have the opposite prioritization. I also think that Clozemaster should not mask the difference between все and всё. I believe that once “ё” and “е" are treated the same in text input, everyone will be happier (if not perfectly happy).

I would love it if the source sentences at Tatoeba were changed to contain “ё” when that letter was called for, but I’ve been there long enough to know that this is not a change that the community would ever agree on.

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@mike
That’s some great news, thank you very much!

It isn’t exactly outdated.

I’ve been told differently by natives but I won’t engage in that discussion :smiley:

@alanf
Treating them differently makes sense as well. I didn’t mean to insist on removing all the ё, (even though I kind of disgust this letter for the confusion it creates when used inconsistently), I just thought it would be the most practical way.
As for pronunciation - my personal approach is just permanent exposure, not hard studying, and after some time I got it right in all languages I learned so far. So it’s just not part of what I need when learning, but of course, that doesn’t mean its not for others as well.

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It still isn’t fixed :frowning_face:
@mike

This should be fixed on the web - please let us know if not. A fix for the mobile is still pending.

as of now it is not fixed, unfortunately.


just now.

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Thanks! Another potential fix is up on the web - turns out ë != ё :grimacing: Please let us know if it’s still is not being handled correctly.

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Thanks, now it works!

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