Je suppose que tu veux utiliser mon bureau.

Sentence Discussions French
#1
English Translation

I suppose you want to use my office.

I suppose you want to use my office.

I’m seeing on several websites that supposer que requres the subjunctive. From this website:
“ If the French 'Supposer' Hypothesizes, Add Subjunctive “

“Supposer que” might use the subjunctive, but it depends. When the subject hypothesizes, yes. But when the subject is just assuming or supposing, no.“ If the French ‘Supposer’ Hypothesizes, Add Subjunctive “
“ ‘Supposer’ and ‘Supposer Que’
Supposer que, when used to express an hypothesis, fulfills the subjunctive’s underlying requirement of expressing actions or ideas that are subjective or otherwise uncertain.“

I wonder if there are any gurus or native French speakers with an opinion on that? With the subjunctive, it would be “Je suppose que tu veuilles utiliser mon bureau.“

Thank you in advance for your help.

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#2
English Translation

I suppose you want to use my office.

#3

In talking to some other folks about it, the most common usage is that supposer is almost always used for indicating an assumption rather than a hypothesis. So this sentence, Je suppose que tu veux utiliser mon bureau, is an assumption, which makes the indicative correct.

The takeaway for me is that “supposer“ in French has more of a nuance of assumption that I would have given “suppose“ in English.

#4

Interesting… If someone had asked me to translate the French sentence into English, I would probably have said either:

I assume you want to use my office.

or

I guess you want to use my office.

But now I wonder…

What would you say is the difference between:

  1. I assume you want to use my office.
  2. I suppose you want to use my office.
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#5

I don’t think I would ever say, I suppose you want to use my office. It could even sound a little snarky, as if I didn’t like the idea. So tone would be important. If I mean assume, I say assume. I would be more likely to say, “You probably want to use my office.“

If I use the word suppose, it would be something like, “Suppose we have $20 to spend, what would we buy?“ Really hypothetical. I don’t think “suppose“ gets used a lot in Midwest USA. Suppose can mean assume, but I don’t use it that way. England or other countries might have a different nuance.

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#6

That’s very interesting to me… Learning how language is actually used.

Right! I see what you mean…:slight_smile: - Same goes for French.

It can actually be used the same way in French, except we would use the subjunctive:

Supposons que nous ayons 20 $ à dépenser, qu’achèterions-nous ?

Supposons que la Terre soit plate, […]

Supposons que cela soit vrai.

Thanks!

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#7

Thanks to you and everyone replying to my (and everyone’s posts). The forums are really what makes this all work. The help has been invaluable. I spend a lot of time looking things up and even bought Le Bon Usage (umm, 15th Edition not the most recent), but the information from the forums make it all come together. Merci beaucoup!

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#8

I agree the forum enriches the Clozmaster experience! I am always impressed by, and grateful to, those that take the time to thoroughly explain questions with a lot of nuances and examples.

When I read this thread, and especially the nuance about “I suppose” sounding snarky, which I agree, I realized “I imagine you want to use my office” is probably somewhere in the middle? Not a strong assumption but without any potential negative attitude. Of course the natural question then is can you / do you use subjunctive with imaginer que, and the answer I found was predictable - “ça dépend” :sweat_smile:

According to this site:
Imaginer que - Question Orthographe).

"après imaginer à l’impératif (comme ici : imaginons), vous avez le choix entre l’indicatif et le subjonctif : imaginons que nous jouons ensemble ou imaginons que nous jouions ensemble. Le subjonctif accentue la valeur hypothétique, mais la nuance est subtile.

Par contre, si imaginer n’était pas à l’impératif mais à l’indicatif dans une phrase affirmative, on ne pourrait pas utiliser le subjonctif (j’imagine que nous sommes amis et surtout pas j’imagine que nous soyons amis).

A la forme négative, par contre, les deux seraient possibles.

La deuxième partie de la phrase dépend du mode utilisé dans la première : si indicatif, alors indicatif, si subjonctif, alors conditionnel :

– imaginons que nous jouons ensemble, comme cela nous rêverons ensemble… (un projet que l’on s’apprête à réaliser)
– imaginons que nous jouions ensemble, comme cela nous rêverions ensemble… (une hypothèse que l’on envisage)

@yottapolyglot Do you agree with this explanation?

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#9

“Imaginer” also came to mind when I was thinking about this example, because it can be used with a similar meaning in this context:

“J’imagine que tu veux utiliser mon bureau ./?”

I definitely agree with that! :slight_smile:

Also agree. It’s a matter of perspective, how the speaker sees the situation.

That’s how I would use it as well, but I’m guessing even native speakers might disagree.

See Eddy’s first post here for instance: S’imaginer que / imaginer que : indicatif ou subjonctif ? - Forum littéraire

image

This doesn’t sound quite right to me, but… :man_shrugging:

With “imaginer” in the present tense, I would typically use the subjunctive in a negative sentence:

“Je n’imagine pas que nous soyons amis.”
“Je n’imagine pas que nous puissions être amis.”

I agree.

If you have questions, or if you want to discuss specific examples, let me know.

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